The Importance of Women Speaking up in the Workplace with Leila Sabet
Welcome to another episode of “Dream Job with Danielle Cobo”!
Today, I am blessed to be joined by Leila Sabet.
Leila Sabet is breaking barriers and making a difference in professional careers by putting visibility on what is possible for young women in traditionally male-lead spaces. Leila is a Senior Program Manager in Operations and Logistics for Amazon, who is advancing in management, and holding the door open for young women coming after her. Leila’s experiences working as a young woman in a male dominated industry is what inspired her to form her Initiative, Lift & Be Uplifted, to provide young women the skills of self-promotion and self-advocacy. To address the confidence gap, and why women often struggle with visibility, she highlights research based strategies addressing workplace biases to supercharge leadership potential, and ultimately, increase women’s influence in the professional world.
In today's conversation, we talk all about how to find your voice in a male-dominted industry, stay open to new opportunities, seek out mentors who are different than you are and how to be an amazing ally to other women in the workplace. Tune into today's episode!
“The most important part of empowerment for women is visibility" – Leila Sabet
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Highlights
💫 2:48 A little about Leila's career journey
💫 5:04 How Leila found her voice in a male-dominated industry
💫 10:00 Some advice for speaking up as a woman in the workplace
💫 14:35 Knowing when it's time to speak up for yourself
💫 19:36 The power that lies in vulnerability
💫 21:31 Three takeaways from today's conversation
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To be a Woman in a Male-Dominated Industry
Leadership has been an overarching theme in my life since I can remember. When I was a student at Florida State University, I had led on multiple executive boards. I was Chapter President of my sorority, Alpha Delta Pi. And then upon graduation in 2018, these experiences led me to being hired as an entry level manager for Amazon fulfillment. So this is where I worked in a warehouse that was as big as 28 football fields, insane. And most of my peers were men and my bosses were men, and my boss's bosses were men. I had to work extra hard to really earn that respect and not just ensure that my voice was heard, but that it was valued.
So just a couple of years into my career, I was promoted to be the Learning Manager for our site. And this was during the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. So I was tasked with the responsibility of onboarding more than 6000 warehouse associates and managers during the largest hiring history of corporate America. So that was quite the responsibility. And as a result of my leadership through this, I was promoted this past March as an Operations Manager. And then just a couple months ago, I got offered a corporate role with the company, where I'm now a Senior Program Manager in Fleet Operations. So the fleet is our vans—those little prime cars that you're seeing driving around. So I own that fleet for all the delivery stations in Central Florida.
Wow, I know Amazon's at my house pretty much every single day to the point where my kids think they're getting presents every day. Amazon has made life easy, especially during the pandemic, just to have things arrive at your door so quickly. So tell us a little bit about some times in your career. You talk about working in a male dominated industry, and I can relate to that when I was in sales. I was in the dental industry, and there were 100 sales reps, and I was among one of the seven females. And not only being a female in a male-dominated industry, I was in capital equipment, so you really had to prove yourself. So tell us a little bit about what it's like and how did you speak up and really made your mark as to the value that you bring in that world?
I love that you shared that about yourself because it's something that more women need to talk about. We all go through some sort of barrier from day one until retirement. I think that's something that's really important to note. Within the first year of my career, there were a handful of times where I should have spoken up. But there was just one situation in particular that was truly the tipping point for me. And that's the one that I'll share with you.
When I was still a newer manager in the operation, I wasn't just the only female in the room, but I was also the youngest person. And I would go into the sink meetings three times a shift to present in a room full of men, all older than me. So you can imagine it was quite an intimidating space for someone who didn't really realize her value as a leader in that space. I was used to leading a sorority of like, 300 women. And so I was constantly working with encouraging uplifting women. And then I entered this space. That was like a culture shock. So in this meeting, I was asked by the senior manager leading that meeting to report my calculations. And as I began speaking, he raised his index finger in the air. And he interrupted me to say, “No, no, no, no, that's not right.” And when I began to explain how I arrived at my numbers, he interrupted me again to state loudly to everyone, “Oh, she can do math.” And not one of my colleagues stood up for me. I remember at that moment, I knew I had two options: one, to stand up for myself, or two, to keep talking and just get through it. So of course, at the time, it showed a ladder, and I kept talking. And it wasn't until I was driving home that morning—I worked the night shift at that time. And I realized that I had already failed each of the women who were going to walk through those same doors. And because I didn't stand up for myself, by extension, I didn't stand up for any of those women coming after me. And so that was a really pivotal time in my career, where I just decided, “Oh, my goodness, I need to do something to change this for women coming after me.” But that was that one time in my career that was probably the biggest point where I realized that change had to happen.
And that takes a lot of courage. I know that sometimes. I've also experienced this as well. Previously, I would just say, “Oh, well, you know, it's not that big of a deal. I'll just brush it off, I'll just brush it off.” And really, you're right, if we want to forge the way for women, and really model when it comes to speaking up, it starts with us, and starts with us speaking up and making a mark and saying how things like that aren't really appropriate.
I think what's really interesting about this story is that everything really ended up coming full circle, because that same man who interrupted me during that meeting, is the same man who interviewed me and sought me out for this corporate position that I'm in now. And it's a good lesson for women and men to never burn bridges with anyone at work, even when you feel burned by them. And you know, he ended up being my biggest advocate for my first promotion in the fulfillment center. He's one of my favorite leaders to currently work with.
And it was truly the start of a career revolution for me. All in all, he did me a favor in that situation. I mean—I don't know if you're familiar with the Myers Briggs Personality tests. And my personality type was the same for years. I was the Consul—like that was my personality type. And then just after this shift in my career, my personality type changed completely to the Protagonist. I was even the fastest manager promoted from level four to level five at the time. And at the end of the day, I was completely underestimated. My value is underestimated. And I saw that as a negative thing for so long. But after that meeting that I experienced with that man, I realized that I could actually use this underestimation as my edge to forge forward.
Getting Comfortable in Owning Your Work
And sometimes a lot of women will just kind of be in the shadows. I think a lot of women don't want to come across as narcissistic.So they won't speak to what their accomplishments are and what they're doing and what mark they're making. And it's interesting, because men have no problem doing that. They have no problem talking about their accomplishments. And it's important for women, if we want to really accelerate our career, to be speaking of the successes, because we've worked hard for these. We've overcome adversity and barriers, and we get to celebrate them and share them with other people. So what are some of the ways that you recommend that women really speak up in their career and speak to what they want and what they'll tolerate and what they won't tolerate?
I agree with everything that you just said. It’s so important. The most important part of empowerment and women is visibility. Something that I love to say and really stand by is that it's hard to be her if you can't see her. And I know that many young women with big goals are being discouraged by workplace cultures that aren't inclusive. As women, we have to get comfortable with self promotion. And most importantly, be our biggest advocate. No one can advocate for you better than you can advocate for you. The root of becoming comfortable with this is this simple understanding that the qualities that make us great mothers, great sisters, great caregivers, great friends, are also all qualities that are valuable assets in boardrooms, organizations, and teams. And it all goes back to valuing ourselves for who and what we already are. We have to lean into our successes; take charge of our careers. And don't underestimate or undermine your accomplishments out of fear that others will be turned off or threatened by your success. I think that women learn this lesson too late in the game, or sometimes they never learned it at all. I think that no matter where we are, no matter how unfamiliar this space of the role is, what women offer is so valuable and should be sought out not nearly given by default, or because it's the next step for a company to meet a diversity quota. I think that when we believe in our value as women, we help others believe it too. And this will not only encourage women to advocate for themselves. But all this is also how we'll put more visibility on what's possible for women to achieve.
Oftentimes we have these limiting beliefs. My audience has heard me talk about them before. And I've experienced a lot of them. That kind of self doubt, and I'll speak to women and they go, “Oh, you know, I don't know, I just don't have industry experience” or “You know, I haven't had a lot of success.” And it's not until we go through their resume and we talk about their accomplishments. And I'm like, “Wait a minute, you and you were in the President circle? You are a rockstar! And it's interesting when you start to promote yourself, and you start to promote the accomplishments you have. It's a self reminder, like, “Wait a minute, I remember going through this, and wait a minute, I'm a badass woman.” When you go through that self promotion, it's inspiring to other women: to see other women and their accomplishments and to rise up and to hold each other.
Absolutely. It's something that's so simple that I think people can do is that next time you're sending out an email to your workplace, your peers, your bosses, and let's say that you just worked on this project— well often, in the workplace, we're working with a team of people. Something that I noticed was that when I was starting, I just naturally would say “we” when I was stating the task that we had to accomplish to complete a goal. And then I kind of went back. I had a mentor who showed me this. I went back and read my email. And he was like, “Who's we?” And I'm like, “What? I guess it's just me.” And he's like, “Well, then why aren't you taking credit for that?” And I'm like, “What? Great point.” And so now, every time I write an email, I go back and I check myself and I say, “Okay, let me take credit for my contributions.” And I think that's something that's so easy and so simple that anyone can do.
The Right Time to Speak Up
Honestly, I think all it takes is one woman standing up for herself. And that doesn't have to be—when you say standing up for yourself, you think automatically of this aggressive standpoint of someone saying—but actually no, that's not the case. I think that just by speaking up, taking credit for what's yours, and just becoming comfortable using your voice in meetings without someone calling on you. I think that by extension, that one woman really is standing up for all the women coming after her which is kind of what I was alluding to earlier, and that's why it's so For that one woman just speaks out for herself. I think it's important to note that men are not equal to men. They are different from men. The characteristics and the qualities that are associated with women make us uniquely suited for positions of leadership, management, or really any position you can think of. It's totally crucial for women to own their femininity for the strength that it is, in order to challenge those existing norms. And research is pointing to the fact that even when women are ambitious, the socialization of perfection often leads us to risk aversion. And it's up to us to have confidence to rewrite the rules of the corporate culture, and what roles women are suited for. Not only do women need to take up space to attack culture, but if women want to be viewed as equal in the workplace, or valuable, they must stand their ground and not give away their power. And I think that's something that a lot of women do, including myself, I've absolutely been a victim of that.
We also get to move past the norms of society. And it's interesting. So the podcast Dream Job with Danielle Cobo that we're on today just got rated top 10 feminist podcasts. Oh, we love that. It was an honor to receive that email. And I was telling my husband, and he's like, “Well, do you? Do you identify as a feminist?” And I said, “Well, what does a feminist mean to you?” And he's like, “Bra burning, men hating”, and I was like, “Okay, well, first off, we get to shift the mind of what a feminist is. A feminist is more just somebody that believes in equal rights, equal pay, and that women also serve a valuable role in leadership roles. And, like you said, celebrating our differences and what men bring to the table, what women bring to the table when it comes to the different strengths that we have, and creating this diverse culture. You have a more balanced culture when you've got different roles and different genders in different roles.
It was pretty funny to have my husband and his perception versus what my perception was? I think that that's automatic. When people hear feminism, they automatically go to this aggressive meaning of what that is. But I completely agree with you that everyone has their own idea of what that is. And for me, it's definitely just understanding and valuing the female voice for what it is and not believing that we have to necessarily masculinize ourselves for it to be effective.
And it's the same with men.You know, I got four year old twins. And you've got this feminine energy. It's also with men. It's not about pushing down their emotions. Because a lot of times, men or boys are raised to say, “Don't cry. Men don't cry. Boys don't cry.” But it's good to channel your emotions, it's good to tap into having a self awareness of what your emotions are. And that's something that's valuable in both men and women.
I started this organization “Lift and be uplifted” and the whole notion behind it is just this belief in the investment in young women who will be entering the workforce in spaces like that, and help build their resilience and increase their voices in these seats of influence. I think that the intent really is to support the notion that women can maintain their femininity and be strong and successful leaders at the same time. I created this Mustang women vlog which you are spotlighted on. And I love that. It's really a form of digital mentorship to elevate the voices of women who speak about their motivations, their successes, but also their challenges in forging this new path and these nontraditional female-like careers. I just think that's so important to put that visibility there, because women really often—I've definitely thought this—think that they have to change themselves in order to be effective or to fit in.
There's power in vulnerability. I think that when you talk about vulnerability, sometimes people think it's a weakness. But in reality, when you're able to be vulnerable, and you're able to talk about the challenges of the failures, and how you overcome them, it's actually one of the most powerful ways to connect with people and build a deeper relationship with others.
I think vulnerability is something that everyone can choose to have to highlight, but women are exceptionally granted this. And I think that in this management role that I held when I first started my career, vulnerability is what made me so relatable to my associates and my team. The job itself is really hard. They're doing the same processes over and over again, packing for 10, 11,12 hours straight, sometimes, depending on if we're in peak season during the holidays. And with that being said, having that level of empathy, that vulnerability, having a manager and a leader on the floor, who could just say, “Hey, I hear you. Let me pack with you. Let me just talk to you while you pack.” You know, I think that I've seen that way more in feminine leadership. So I think it's just been so effective in this male dominated field, but just across all industries.
Leadership is not only leading from the front, it's leading from the back. It's also linking arms with your team. And I would always say, I'm never going to ask my team to do something that I haven't done or will do in conjunction with them.
I think if you don't have the trust of your team, then you really don't have anything at that point. It's so important—like, we're all in this together. I think the best leaders are the ones that are willing to kind of get on their hands and knees and do the job itself as well.
So what are three things that you would like our audience to walk away from our time today that really resonates and can be implemented into their lives?
Stay open to opportunities. I studied industrial organizational psychology in college and I was thinking I was going to do something in Psych. And now I'm in logistics, which is completely different. But with that being said, I want our audience to hear this, stay open to opportunities, because you always have to start somewhere. And the most successful people I know are the ones who clean up mess after mess, rather than waiting for that shiny, perfect opportunity that you always thought in your head.
Seek out mentors who are different from you. I alluded earlier to that one mentor that I had, his name is Sean. He was going through my email, and he was asking, “Who's we?'' and he was encouraging me to take credit for my contributions. He's a completely different leader than I am. But he's been one of the most effective mentors that I've had, because he's so different from me. And he opens my mind to new possibilities and ways of leading.
Truly to be an ally. To be an ally is not just standing up for yourself, but being an ally to the women next to you. If you see her struggling, help her uplift her. That is so important, because when one woman succeeds, we really all succeed.
