Making Time for Self-Care with Wellbeing Strategist, Michelle Dicksinson
Today, I am blessed to be joined by Michelle Dickinson.
Michelle E. Dickinson is a Wellbeing Strategist and passionate mental health advocate. She is also a TEDx speaker and a published author of a memoir entitled Breaking Into My Life. Michelle goes first and sees herself as the bridge that helps people get comfortable with their mental health so that they reach out and get the support they need before they hit a crisis. She makes it ok to not be ok and thrives on making a real difference in the lives of others – especially around their wellbeing.
After years of playing the role of child caregiver to her bipolar mother, Michelle embarked on her own healing journey of self-discovery. She went on to spend years working to eradicate the mental health stigma within her own workplace by elevating empathy and compassion, causing more open conversations, and leading real change in how mental illness is understood. She was instrumental in building the largest and fasted growing employee mental health employee resource group while at her fortune 50 company.
Michelle is out to do her part to eliminate the stigma by normalizing the mental wellbeing conversation within the workplace and beyond. She partners with innovative leaders to bring them her Psychological Resilience programs and mental health strategies to recenter employees and cultivate cultures of compassion. Her signature Resilience webinar has made a positive impact on thousands of employees during COVID-19.
“Self-care is something that needs to be practiced every, single day" – Michelle Dickinson
Highlights
💫 2:00 What exactly is psychological resiliency?
💫 3:05 Some easy ways to practice self-care
💫 16:01 Some of the programs that Michelle runs to help with psychological resiliency
💫 21:54 How social media impacts our wellbeing
💫 24:09 How Michelle is helping to end the stigma around mental health
💫 29:23 Some advice for those wanting to share their mental health journey
Let's Connect!
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What is psychological resiliency?
We are all navigating this pandemic, and I think you would agree with me that it has been an exhausting process to navigate; so when you think about resiliency, it's all in the face of the impact that this pandemic has had on us mentally, emotionally, the amount of loss. So what we need more than ever is to get a hand on what it is we can do to feel better and recenter ourselves. So basically it's recentering ourselves and pulling back in our power to really take care of our well-being daily – not just periodically, but daily.
When you're on a plane and they tell you, you put the oxygen mask on first. And I'm a big believer of that because before you can be a friend, a mother, an employee, a spouse, you have to take care of yourself first, and it's very important to do that. So how can we take care of ourselves during such an interesting time within our lives with this pandemic?
It comes down to remembering that self-care is not selfish. We need to be reflecting on how we're doing every day. I look at it as in the morning when you wake up, I'm getting older now. So I oftentimes lay in bed and I feel the body parts that just don't feel really great. Maybe we don't work out the day before or some type of activity and we do that body scan, but we don't stop and check-in with how we are feeling mentally and emotionally. So what that really means is getting present to how you're doing every day, so that when you start feeling like you're not doing well, you can reach out to someone that you love and trust and just talk to them and hopefully be able to feel better so that you don't continue to feel bad.
I think the biggest challenge is sometimes identifying what that feeling is. Whether it's anger, or frustration, or sadness, or whatever that feeling is. And then trying to identify what triggered it because different things within our past or within our current life are going to trigger these emotions. And then how to work through them is also another step itself.
But what happens is we're so busy caring for our loved ones and taking on our responsibilities that we get lost and we don't check in with ourselves, and before you know it, we're exploding and we're not happy with our reactions or we are overwhelmed. We're just sad or we're just totally depleted. So when it comes to resiliency, it's a daily activity to just get present to how you're doing and make sure that you have tools and strategies and things you can do to just sort of be tending the garden of your wellness.
Self-care is not Selfish
I remember this time a few weeks ago when I really try not to yell at my kids. I mean, I really try to actually get down on their level and look at what I do with them. And I remember this time when I yelled at them in another way that I've never yelled at them before. I have three and a half year old twins, and they're in these trying three year old age, and I remember going, “This isn't who I am. This isn't who I want to be.” And I had to take a step back and really realize what was triggering these; first, identify what was emotion, what was triggering them and then how I can move through them, and so I went back to I need to get back on to my peloton. I need to work out and get some of that energy moving. I also went back to journaling every day and getting back in my faith with God and also leaning out to a friend and saying, “I need some parenting advice. I need some help.” And it's amazing how powerful it is to just be able to talk through things with some friends.
Yeah, we can't just keep going, you know, it's one of these things where you can't. I know we live in a society where it's like, just press forward and keep going. You've got this, tough it out. You're going to be fine. But I think that the reality is if we don't take care of ourselves every day, there's this compounding effect. It just gets worse and worse and worse. And that's why I often talk to ladies, and I say that one spa day that you do every six months is not going to unpack six months of stress and strain. You really do need a daily practice to take care of yourself and then enjoy the spa day and not think it's going to solve everything that you've just built up over a six-month window. So self-care is a daily practice is what I preach.
Absolutely. My husband and I, we make a joke where we say we work all day, then we put the kids to bed, and then there's this window of period right after the chaos. And I just tell my husband and he tells me I want to fit ten minutes in my nothing box and just be present within our thoughts and just be able to calm down a little bit before transitioning into being pause mode. Just being a wife and a loving wife and him being a husband.
I just need my nothing box to just be in the moment and think. We all want to show up the best version of ourselves. And if we don't make it a priority to get in what we know we need, then we do ourselves a disservice because then we beat ourselves up like, “I'm not happy with how I reacted. I'm not happy with how I'm showing up at my relationships. I'm not happy with how I'm performing at work.” All those things tend to happen if we're not really taking the time and doing the things that nourish us – doing the things that give us energy, that help us feel better physically to help us feel better spiritually and emotionally. It's just so important to be the best version of ourselves and to really do even a simple gratitude practice or breathing exercise or a ten-minute meditation or run outside. These are all things that can literally just alter your state, your mood and return some of that joy back into your heart that you've just nourished yourself a little bit.
I mean, deep breathing is something. When I was overcoming postpartum, I really learned deep breathing and using that as a tool and technique to calm my body because there's times in our life, whether it's in our personal life or it's with our work life where we get anxious and we just have those anxious moments, learning to take three deep breaths is such a simple and powerful tool.
Prioritizing Your Mental Health and Well-being
Absolutely. I teach that in my resilience course. We do the four-seven-eight breathing technique, and we also do a three-minute meditation to just have people get a glimpse of the impact that three minutes can have on you. So the excuse of time and the excuse of oh, I can't meditate – you can and you can realize the benefits from something as simple as a three-minute meditation. Or, like you said, three deep breaths that can literally recenter you and have you able to focus and just feel better.
You know, time is an interesting word because a lot of times we say, “I don't have time for it.” And when I'm working with my clients, I talk about what's a priority, because the reality is we have time to do a lot more than we think. It's a matter of what the priority is and shifting instead of saying, “I don't have time saying it's not a priority.” And so the other day, somebody said, “You know, my mother asked me when will I get a clean garage. And I said that it's not a priority of mine right now.” It's not a priority, and sometimes if you shift that time priority, could you imagine if you said, “My health is not a priority,” insisting that you don't have time to exercise? I don't have time to meditate for three minutes when really what you're telling yourself is, “I'm not making the mind and the clarity as a priority for three minutes.”
That's brutal. But that's exactly what you're saying by making the choices that you make every day. Shifting that word from not having time to what a priority because we could still our day with business.
It is choices. I have this piece where I talk about the importance of structures and rituals and having a morning routine and having an evening routine and setting yourself up by having a plan. Planning your work, working your plan. Because at the end of the day, if you plan your work, work your plan that you create for the day, you weave in self-care. Your sense of self at the end of the day that you accomplished what you said you were going to do and you cared for yourself is going to be pretty phenomenal, and when your sense of self is high, that gives you momentum for the next day. So it's a win when you set out to do what you're going to do and you take care of yourself so that you can accomplish that, then you just feel good. You know, at the end of the day, you're like, “I did that, and I took care of myself.”
I remember taking a course in personal development, and they were talking about making time for yourself and scheduling time for yourself. So I remember when I started to get back into my workout routine, and I knew that’s Mondays and Fridays. So when I was a manager for Allergan aesthetics, I remember Mondays and Fridays were always my toughest days because I was back to back in conference calls, and so I learned to actually schedule time on my calendar in between some of the calls for clarity moments – moments where I was scheduling time with myself to eat lunch because I wasn't so great at that, and then the next time was to just give myself a moment to think and connect back within my mind and to just kind of like self-meditate, so that you're breaking up your day. But you need to schedule time with yourself every day to either meditate or work out or to go for a walk and then time throughout your day to take this clarity moment.
I think that's so important, and I think if it doesn't get on my calendar, it doesn't happen. So I love this practice of scheduling time, but you got to own and respect your calendar once you do that because we all know I try, but you got to stick to it because the payoff is just worth it. I think a lot of us are busy people. We tend to put ourselves last. We put everybody else first, we put our loved ones, we put everything else first, and we put ourselves last. But in reality, you can't pour from an empty cup. You have to nourish yourself. You have to hear yourself. So I love that; scheduling, I think, is key.
The Five-Minute Rule
There was a book that I read about time management, and I remember they said, if a task takes more than five minutes – so if you get an email and that task to respond or whatever it is take more than five minutes, schedule it on your calendar. So then you're making time to respond to that email or to do the task that's being asked. And if it takes less than five minutes, then actually do the task right away. If you just leave it in your inbox, what happens is we'll probably touch that email three or four times before we do that, and then it's creating this burden of, oh, I don't want to do that task. So it talks about the five minute rule.
Well, and you're getting it done because you're actually moving it to a time where you can actually put thought into it. And so sometimes you receive this email and you're going, “Wow, I really want to be present and to put some thought into whatever this person's asking. And if I'm just trying to get it done to the next talk, I'm doing that person disservice. And so I'll actually move it to a section on my calendar where I can block out some more time to actually put some thought into it.”
Creating Psychological Resilience in the Workplace
When it comes to keeping employees happy and healthy in their life and at work, it comes down to reminding them of things they can be doing. I think one of the things that this pandemic highlighted is the need for more than just an 800-employee assistance line. It's really engaging with your people, checking on your people, and then equipping them to navigate this. We've been navigating a lot of loss, loss of loved ones, and loss of routine. So what I do is I work with organizations to bolster this resilience through strategies and things that people can do daily. So it's getting them present to how they're doing, how they're feeling – having that become a normal dialogue for them, even within their families, of how they're doing and giving them these daily activities that they can apply to their lives and start to feel better. It's reminding them that social media and the media in general might be contributing to a depletion of their energy or their feelings of hope. So I have several different programs. I have a COVID fatigue program. I have a resilience program which is called Protecting Our Happy Goodness. I have an Unblurring the Lines Program to help people create more balance because we're all working from home and wearing multiple hats within our family. So let's help employees get that balance back, create structures, and just be reminded of things that they can be doing to feel better; because ultimately, if we keep people happy and healthy, they're going to stay engaged and they're going to stay working. They're going to stay healthy at home, and it's a win. And honestly, right now, it's such a beautiful time for employers to really show up for people, breathe that loyalty, and have them just feel that their needs are being heard and they're being supported during one of the most challenging times of our lifetime.
This is the past year has been such a roller coaster of emotions from feeling like in the beginning where I'm like, “Oh, okay. I'm not traveling so I'm going to go for walks every day,” and then these decisions, “Do I send my kids to school or not? Do my husband and I go out to dinner or not?” Just because the risks and so many very powerful decisions we're having to make, and you make a really good point about checking in and checking in on your team, and that is such an important role of a leader to check in on your team. Now, I want to take that a step further because who's checking in on the leaders? I remember when Cove Wister first happening as a leader of supporting my team and helping them through this covet. I didn't necessarily feel like I was being fulfilled, and I was spiraling a little bit, and so what do you think companies do to also support the leadership team?
It's so important that culture shows up in moments like this. What kind of culture do you have? And is your organization a culture that has always been one where they are looking out for each other, and there's a sense of community? I think it's such a great opportunity for people to be checking on each other, people to be checking on their subordinates, people to be checking on their superiors. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all human beings before we are an employee member. So this goes back to the work culture. What are we doing to show up as the caring human beings that we are first and foremost, and then the worker. So I think that's one of the things I preach. Don't assume the person next to you is doing okay, extend yourself and reach out to them because you might be the only person asking them how they're doing, and that could make all the difference. So it is about checking in on one another regardless of rank and just saying, how are you doing? Because I know I had a bad day yesterday, or can you believe that this is going on? I'm frustrated. How are you? But it's just a connection that's just so vital right now.
Understanding How Social Media Affects Our Perceptions and Breaking the Stigma Around Mental Health
You also added social media to this element because social media can create this false reality. And you see, people really put the good on social media. They don't necessarily put the times where they're in their sweats crying because they're trying to make these very impactful decisions. And it can create this false sense – the reality that everybody else is doing good. Why am I really struggling here? It's interesting when companies create this environment where they allow people to share their struggles and to share just the everyday thing that they're really struggling with, how it creates this closeness and this relationship among the teams that are so powerful.
That's the most amazing thing about having a culture that is stigma free because humanity shows up when we get to be our true and authentic selves. I think it's so important. And the other thing that I do want people to remember is we hear people say that we’re navigating this pandemic in the same boat. But we're not. We're actually in the same ocean, and we're all in very different boats because we all have past traumas and life experiences that make this experience very unique to us. So stop comparing on the illusion of the person next to you who seems to be okay. You have your own experience, and it is uniquely you, and there's nothing wrong with it. I want people to just receive permission to be navigating this to the best of their ability because their scenario in their past history is all contributing to how well they're doing.
You brought up an interesting word, stigma. And I think there's a lot of stigma around mental health, and a lot of people are really scared to talk about their mental health in the workplace because they're scared that they're going to be viewed as weak. So talk to me a little bit about how you are trying to support conversations around mental health when there's a stigma associated to it.
It goes back to culture. You can't just go into a company and expect an employee to openly start talking about their mental health. You have to understand what is the environment of the organization. Is it truly an inclusive organization for people with invisible disabilities, just like it is for people with physical disabilities? So I always say, what is the culture like? Do you have a stand for inclusion? Are you a stand for authentic authenticity in the workplace? Are your policies in place that say we will be a stigma free organization? Are your leaders talking about this? Is this something that they're talking about? It's so powerful what a senior leader can do just by simply sharing their own story. It's really stone in the organization if they are courageous enough to say there was a time in my life when I navigate severe anxiety. And then all of a sudden, other people are talking about the fact that he had the courage to talk about that. Before you know it, there's a dialogue happening amongst several different groups like that. It's okay to acknowledge any mental health imbalance. There's so many little things that we can do to condition our cultures to be ready for these kinds of conversations. But you can't expect an employee to just go first. That is a very scary thing to do. This company is really promoting that they are really committed to their being inclusion for people of all abilities.
And it really takes that one person to be courageous and say something. I remember when I was talking about my journey with IVs and overcoming postpartum depression and being a military spouse. And when you start to talk about things and you give people permission to open up, it's amazing the little mini support groups that you can create within an organization. I remember people would reach out to me that didn't necessarily come from an organization, there's 1500 people. It's not that they necessarily knew me very well, but they see people sharing these stories on social media, and you immediately connect with them just because you share the same story.
It's so true. That was my experience. When I gave my Ted talk, people came out of the darkness and felt like they had permission to connect with me because they felt like someone understood them. I always remind organizations that the most powerful asset you have are your people, and if you can have your people support your people, well, isn't that a beautiful thing? I mean, when I was at J-N-J-I was part of the leadership team that built the first mental health employee resource group, and it's like, no joke. Build it, and they will come. People were longing to connect with other people who either had a loved one at home, had been trying with their own scenario, and they just wanted that connection and that sense of community and sense of belonging with people who understood. So it's really powerful – the sense of storytelling and connection, just by common life challenges.
There's a lot of organizations that are creating these women in leadership type groups, and imagine how powerful would it be if you've had somebody who's overcome something, whether it's overcoming postpartum, overcoming alcoholism, or anything along these mental health related subjects. And how powerful would it be if you said, you know what, you have a story and you have overcome such a challenge a moment in time with in your life. Could you be a resource to others? That is such a powerful option to have within these organizations if they let people open up and they create the safe environment for people to talk about mental health.
I watched it unfold, and I think it was sort of like, get out of the way because the people have spoken, and that was really cool because there was just momentum. There was the structure. But then people were not feeling obligated to share. But they just were compelled to because there was such an environment that really lend itself well to people telling their stories in an effort to help someone else, and that's pretty remarkable.
Having the Courage to Share Your Story
So there's people out there saying, “I have a story,” but they're scared. And the one advice that I give to those people is you are actually serving yourself through the process, because when you share your story, it's a therapeutic resource to provide yourself. So what advice would you give to somebody who is considering sharing their story, but they're scared to do it?
I mean, what is your intention with sharing your story? Think if your intention is, “I don't want someone else to suffer what I suffered, and if I can help lighten the load for them, then that's a pretty big stand.” I relate to this because I wrote my memoir, and every time I went to write the memoir, it was heavy and it was hard and I just wanted to quit. But then what I wound up doing was I just remembered what was at stake. And for me, what was at stake was if I could humanize mental health, then I could have other people understand what it is like to love someone and what it is like to struggle with the mental illness. And if that is present and I get to cause that, then that's what matters. So I would always go back to why do you want to share it? You want to share it to help someone, then if that's your stand, that will pull you into action to tell the story and the fears go away; because I will tell you that the people who reached out to me after I release my memoir, in the very beginning, they made the four years of writing that memoir worth it because it resonated with them. They felt understood, and it was all worth it. So I will tell you I do it because the difference that you can make is far beyond what you think.
I remember listening to your Ted talk, and I've always struggled with how do I explain what it's like to be raised by a mother with bipolar disorder. I remember watching your Ted talk and going, “Oh, my gosh, somebody else get it. Somebody else gets what it's like to open up your front door and go, what am I going to go into? Am I walking into my mom who's going to be happy and joyful? Am I walking into my mom who's going to be depressed? It was such a powerful message to know somebody else relate to that.
At the end of the day, if that story helped you feel gotten, oh, Lord, there's so many people that live in this world feeling like they're the only ones that ever navigated something horrible, and so alone. It makes you feel so isolated and alone. I mean, someone telling their story could really help. If it helps one person that's so worth it, in my opinion.
If you are a leader out there, if you're in a leadership role, I would encourage you set the stage; be the one that is going to encourage and open up that environment to talk about mental health in the workplace. Because when you do it, you're leading by example and others will follow and people in your team will connect with you in new ways. Look at you and go, “The person is real. It's like a human. They're not just the leader that's leading from the top. There's an element to this person that's human.” And so I would encourage you to do that.
More Tools and Ways to Take Care of Yourself and Others
Now, let's say someone is not in a company right now. What are some tools that you can provide them to help them navigate through this very interesting time within our life?
Well, so it goes back to some of the things that we've already spoken about. It's being courageous enough to get present to how you're doing emotionally on a day to day basis. And you can go online and get the scale of emotions so that you can look at that every morning and just say, “All right, I'm at this stage. I'm actually okay,” or “I'm not doing really well.” And when you see that you're not doing really well, that's when you reach out and talk to someone. It could just be a best friend. It could be your mother. It could be someone you love and trust. So have the courage to get present with how you're doing daily and reach out if you feel like you're not doing well before it escalates. Just nip it right in the bud.
Then there's also getting enough sleep. It sounds so basic. But the first challenge, I think, for mental health and balances is when we can't see straight because we're not getting enough sleep. So I would say making sleep hygiene a priority; getting enough sleep, setting up your room so that you have a good environment to get a restful sleep, not ruminating about things when you're lying in bed at night. Instead of replaying your day and beating yourself up for things you didn't do or you're upset about, try to lay in bed at night and create your tomorrow. Focus on tomorrow. Focus on how you are going to create your tomorrow instead of beating yourself up. And that'll help you get a really nice restful sleep because you're not going to be all consumed in things you can't change from the day. That's important.
I would also say a gratitude practice because you can't be fearful or angry when you're grateful. So whatever that looks like for you. For me, I wake up in the morning and instead of scrolling on social media, which doesn't feel very good, I go to my little journal on my phone called The Five Minute Journal. I go ahead and I log three things I'm grateful for because if I can get presence of things that are good in my life, then that starts my day off on the right foot.
How you end your day and how you start the last 30 minutes are important. They say of your day, how important that is and how you cherish those moments and really creating an environment that's helping you transition into that restful sleep as well as how you start your morning; not just going and grabbing a phone or grabbing your emails and getting overwhelmed at what you need to do that day.
Just try it on. Put your phone in another room, go to bed, put your phone in another room. Go to bed, maybe do your Journal, maybe read something inspiring or enlightening, and then just go to sleep and see if there's a difference in how you feel versus how you are anxious or you did you not get a restful night sleep. These are all little things you can just try. Just try and see how it makes you feel, and then if it makes you feel different or better, there's your answer.
I take it even a step further, too, in addition to putting your phone away. So if you have a work phone and a personal phone, which I know some of people out there do, I would leave my work phone in my office after hours so that I wouldn't be tempted to look at it as well as when I'm with my kids. I try my best, and sometimes I'm good at it. Sometimes I'm not. I try my best to put my phone in the other room so that I'm not tempted to look at my phone when I'm with my kids, or even if you don't have kids out there, whether you're with a friend or a family member, not they're looking at your phone so you can be fully present.
I think we live in such a distracted society like you've done it. You've gone out to dinner and you've seen the couple at the table next to you both on their phone and you're like, you're at a beautiful dinner, really. But we've all been there and we can identify how bad it looks. You're like, they're really disconnected. But then it's like, you really have to be conscious because this thing is like a dopamine hit. We have to realize that the being truly present is so important. It's so important for those we love. It really does show a lot of respect and love when we can just be fully present.
I don't remember the study that I read, but there is a study that talked about the facts of when you are on the phone, what that message sends to the other person. And they said, the brain waves, it's equivalent to somebody slapping you in the face, and I couldn't believe it. So if you sit there and somebody's on the other phone or if you're on your phone while somebody's talking to you, you're basically stopping in the base and saying, you're not important. My phone is more important than you, and could you imagine how that feels to that other person?
Even if they don't say anything. That's how they're feeling. It's like an exercise and reminding ourselves to be present in the moment and of where we are.
If you are that person on the other end, a technique and tool that I do is if somebody is on their phone, I actually stop talking and I wait until they look up and they say, “Oh, I can hear you.” And I appreciate that you can hear me. I'll go ahead and wait until you're done, and then you and I can continue to talk.
Connect with Michelle Dickinson
Well, tell us, Michelle, where can my audience find you? Where can companies find you when it comes to the programs that you offer to organizations, as well as my audience?
So you could go as easily to my website, careforyourpeople.com and learn about why we should be doing more for our people now and how to reach out to me. Typically, what I love to do is just share my story. I have no problem talking about my depression, my mother's depression, my Ted talk, my book. So I love to just kind of create the space of open dialogue realm well-being and then leave people empowered with my tools and techniques. You can reach me at careforyourpeople.com.
Tell us again what your book is and where people can find your book.
It's called Breaking into My Life, and it's available on Amazon and on barnesandnoble.com. You can go there and you can even go to my website, breakingintomylife.com for a free chapter of the book if you want to just kind of get a sense of what it's like. But yeah, I wrote it over a four year period. I poured my heart out because I want people to understand what it's like to love someone with a mental illness. I think that's the most important message, but it is ultimately a story of perseverance and triumph. Just like you, how we've overcome that hurdle of loving someone who was so sick and to go on and do other things in this world, and if you would have asked me even five years ago if I would be an advocate for mental health in honor of my mother, I probably would have laughed at you, but this is the path that I have been led to.
At the back of my book, I actually wrote an epilogue about how I can now see how my mother’s illness has served me in so many ways. I think that for people who overcome living with and loving someone with some type of challenge, you got to look for it. You got to do the healing. You got to do the work. And then once you do the work, you can actually reflect and say it did serve me in some way, and I'm really clear that my mother's illness has served me.
Transcript
Danielle Cobo
Hey, beautiful. Welcome to Dream Job with Danielle Cobo podcast. I am Danielle Cobo elite career coach, and I believe every woman has the power to step into their dream job, earn the salary they are worth, and live the life they desire. Each week you join me, you're going to hear from the inspiring women who have overcome adversity and levels up their career. You're going to learn how to eliminate that inner credit that is holding you back from pursuing your dreams, how to build confidence, create healthy boundaries to transition, burn out to reenergize and gain clarity on how to accelerate your career. It's never too late to pursue your dream jobs. The time is now. Are you ready? Hey, everyone. I am excited to introduce our next guest. Our next guest is Michelle Dickinson, and she is a well-being strategist and she creates psychological resiliency in organizations and in the workplace. She is a Ted talk speaker. She is a published author with Breaking into My Life, and she is the former director of regulatory quality at Johnson &
Johnson. I've had the pleasure of being on her podcast and talking about what it was like to be raised by a mother with bipolar disorder and the mental health around that, and now she is joining us on the Dream Job with Danielle Cobo podcast to talk about psychological resiliency. Thank you so much for joining us.
Michelle Dickinson
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Danielle Cobo
Absolutely. So I have a big question, and I'm sure my listeners do as well. What is psychological resiliency?
Michelle Dickinson
Yeah. We are all navigating this pandemic, and I think you would agree with me that it has been an exhausting process to navigate this, and so when you think about resiliency, it's all in the face of the impact that this pandemic has had on us mentally, emotionally, the amount of loss. So what we need more to than ever is to get a handle on what it is we can do to feel better and recenter ourselves. So basically it's recentering ourselves and pulling back in our power to really take care of our well-being, daily, not just periodically, but daily.
Danielle Cobo
What does it mean? You and I always talk about when you're on a plane and they tell you, you put the oxygen mask on first, and I'm a big believer of that because before you can be a friend, a mother, an employee, a spouse, you have to take care of yourself first, and it's very important to do that. So how can we take care of ourselves during such an interesting time within our lives with this pandemic?
Michelle Dickinson
Yeah. It comes down to remembering that self-care is not selfish. We need to be reflecting on how we're doing every day. I look at it as in the morning when you wake up in the morning, I'm getting older now. So I'll tell one of myself I'll oftentimes lay in bed and I feel the body parts that just don't feel really great. Maybe we don't work out the day before or some type of activity and we do that body scan, but we don't stop and check-in with how we are feeling mentally and emotionally. So what that really means is getting present to how you're doing every day, so that when you start feeling like you're not doing well, you can reach out to someone that you love and trust and just talk to them and hopefully be able to feel better so that you don't continue to feel bad.
Danielle Cobo
Yeah. That's a good point, because I think the biggest challenge is sometimes identifying what that feeling is. So what that feeling is whether it's anger or frustration or sadness or whatever that feeling is, and then trying to identify what triggered it to because different things within our past or within our current life are going to trigger these emotions and then how to work through them. Also another step itself.
Michelle Dickinson
Exactly. But what happens is we're so busy caring for our loved ones and taking on our responsibilities that we get lost and we don't check in with ourselves, and before you know it, we're exploding and we're not happy with our reactions or we are overwhelmed. We're just sad or we're just totally depleted. So when it comes to resiliency, it's a daily activity to just get present to how you're doing and make sure that you have tools and strategies and things you can do to just sort of be tending the garden of your wellness.
Danielle Cobo
Yeah. You know, I remember this time a few weeks ago where I really try not to yell at my kids. I mean, I really try to actually get down on their level and look, I do with them, and I remember this time where I yelled them in another way that I've never yelled at them before. I have three and a half year old twins, and they're in these trying three year old age, and I remember going, this isn't who I am. This isn't who I want to be, and I had to take a step back and really realize what was triggering these first identify what was emotion, what was triggering them and then how I can move through them, and so I went back to I need to get back on to my peloton. I need to work out and get some of that energy moving. I also went back to journaling every day and getting back in my faith with God and also leaning out to a friend and saying, I need some parenting advice. I need some help, and it's amazing how powerful it is to just be able to talk through things with some friends.
Michelle Dickinson
Yeah, we can't just keep going, you know, it's one of these things where you can't. I know we live in a society where it's like, just press forward, and keep going. You've got this tough it out. You're going to be fine. But I think that the reality is if we don't take care of ourselves every day, there's this compounding effect. It just gets worse and worse and worse, and that's why I often talk to ladies, and I say that one spa day that you do every six months is not going to unpack six months of stress and strain. You really do need a daily practice to take care of yourself and then enjoy the spa day and not think it's going to solve everything that you've just built up over a six month window. So self is a daily practice is what I preach.
Danielle Cobo
Absolutely. My husband and we make a joke where we say we work all day, then we put the kids to bed, and then there's this window of period right after the chaos, and I just tell my husband and he tells me I want to fit ten minutes, my nothing box and just to be present within our thoughts and just to be able to calm down a little bit before transitioning into being pause mode. No. But just being a wife and a loving wife and him being a husband, and so just having that like.
Michelle Dickinson
I just need my nothing box to just be in the moment and think we all want to show up the best version of ourselves, and if we don't make it a priority to get in what we know we need, then we do ourselves a disservice because then we beat ourselves up like, I'm not happy with how I reacted. I'm not happy with how I'm showing up at my relationships. I'm not happy with how I'm performing at work. All those things tend to happen if we're not really taking the time and doing the things that nourish us doing, the things that give us energy that help us feel better physically to help us feel better, spiritually and emotionally. It's just so important to be the best version of ourselves and to really even a simple gratitude practice or breathing exercise or a ten minute meditation or run outside. These are all things that can literally just alter your state, your mood and return some of that joy back into your heart that you've just nourished yourself a little bit.
Danielle Cobo
Yeah. I agree with you. I mean, deep breathing is something. When I was overcoming postpartum, I really learned deep breathing and using that as a tool and technique to calm my body because there's times in our life, whether it's in our personal life or it's with our work life where we get anxious and we just have those anxious moments and learning to take three deep breaths is such a simple and powerful tool.
Michelle Dickinson
Absolutely. I teach that in my resilience course. We do the four seven, eight breathing technique, and we also do a three minute meditation to just have people get a glimpse of three minute meditation, the impact that three minutes can have on you. So the excuse of time and the excuse of oh, I can't meditate like you can and you can realize the benefits from something as simple as a three minute meditation. Or, like you said, three deep breaths that can literally recenter you and have you able to focus and just feel better.
Danielle Cobo
You know, time is an interesting word because a lot of times we say I don't have time for it, and when I'm working with my clients, I talk about what's a priority, because the reality is we have time to do a lot more than we think. It's a matter of what the priority and shifting. Instead of saying, I don't have time saying it's not a priority, and so the other day, somebody asked, you know, my mother asked me when he got a clean, your garage comes, and I said, It's not a priority of mine right now. It's not a priority, and sometimes if you shift that time priority, could you imagine if you said, my health is not a priority, insisting that I don't have time to exercise? I don't have time to meditate for three minutes when really what you're telling yourself is, I'm not making the mind and the clarity as a priority for three minutes.
Michelle Dickinson
That's brutal. But that's exactly what you're saying by making the choices that you make every day. Yep.
Danielle Cobo
Shifting that word from not having time to what a priority because we could still our day with business.
Michelle Dickinson
Totally agree with that. Absolutely. It is choices. I have this piece where I talk about the importance of structures and rituals and having a morning routine and having an evening routine and setting yourself up by having a plan. Planning your work, working your plan. Because at the end of the day, you know, if you plan your work, work your plan in that plan that you create for the day, you weave in self-care, your sense of self at the end of the day that you accomplished what you said you were going to do and you cared for yourself is going to be pretty phenomenal, and when your sense of self is high, that gives you momentum for the next day. So it's a win when you set out to do what you're going to do and you take care of yourself so that you can accomplish that, then you just feel good. You know, at the end of the day, you're like I did that, and I took care of myself.
Danielle Cobo
I remember taking a course in personal development, and they were talking about making time for yourself and scheduling time for yourself. So I remember when I started to get back into my workout routine, and I knew that Mondays and Fridays. So when I was a manager for Allergan aesthetics. I remember Mondays and Fridays were always my toughest days because I was back to back conference calls, and so I learned to actually schedule time on my calendar in between some of the calls for clarity moments, moments where I was scheduling time with myself, one to eat lunch because I wasn't so great at that, the one to eat lunch, and then the next time was to just give myself a moment to think and connect back within my mind and to just kind of like self-meditate, so that you're breaking up your day. But you need to schedule time with yourself every day, every day, to either meditate or work out or to go for a walk and then time throughout your day to take this clarity moment.
Michelle Dickinson D
Absolutely. I love that. I think that's so important, and I think if it doesn't get on my calendar, it doesn't happen. So I love this practice of scheduling time, but you got to own and respect your calendar once you do that because we all know I try, but you got to stick to it because the payoff is just it's just worth it. I think a lot of us is busy people. We tend to put ourselves last. We put everybody else first, we put our loved ones, we put everything else first, and we put ourselves last. But in reality, you can't pour from an empty cup. You have to nourish yourself. You have to hear yourself. So I love that scheduling, I think, is key. When you are like, I have or doing better by me, you shouldn't schedule it because then you'll actually do it.
Danielle Cobo
Yeah, and the same technique goes to, there was a book that I read about time management, and I remember they said, if a task takes more than five minutes, so if you get an email and that task to respond or whatever it is, take more than five minutes, schedule it on your calendar. So then you're making time for that time to respond to that email or to do the task that's being asked, and it takes less than five minutes, then actually do the task right away, and if you just leave it in your inbox, what happens is we'll probably touch that email three or four times before we do that, and then it's creating this burden of, oh, I don't want to do that task. So it talks about the five minute rule.
Michelle Dickinson
I like it. I like it. I never heard that. I think for me I'm always like, Can I just get it done and get it off my plate? Is one less thing?
Danielle Cobo
Yeah. Well, and you're getting it done because you're actually moving it to a time where you can actually put thought into it, and so sometimes you receive this email and you're going, wow, I really want to be present and to put some thought into whatever this person's asking, and if I'm just trying to get it done to the next talk, but I'm not really doing that person. I'm doing that percent of service, and so I'll actually move it to a section on my calendar where I can block out some more time to actually put some thought into it.
Michelle Dickinson
I love it. I love it. That's awesome. Good stuff.
Danielle Cobo
So tell us a little bit about what are some of the types of programs that you support companies with to create this psychological resiliency?
Michelle Dickinson
So when it comes to keeping employees happy and healthy in their life and at work, I mean, it comes down to let's just remind them of things they can be doing, just like we're talking about. I think one of the things that this pandemic is highlighted is the need for more than just an 800 employee assistance line. It's really engaging with your people, checking on your people and then equipping them to navigate this. We've been navigating a lot of loss, loss of loved ones, and loss of routine. So what I do is I work with organizations to bolster this resilience through strategies and things that people can do daily. So it's getting them present to how they're doing, how they're feeling, having that become a normal dialogue for them, even within their families, of how they're doing and giving them these daily activities that they can apply to their lives and start to feel better. It's reminding them of the social media and the media in general might be contributing to a depletion of their energy or their feelings of hope. So I have several different programs. I do. I have a COVID fatigue program. I have a resilience program which is called Protecting Our Happy Goodness. I have an unblurring the Lines program to help people create more balance because we're all working from home and wearing multiple hats within our family. So let's help employees get that balance back, create and structures and just be reminded of things that they can be doing to feel better, because ultimately, if we keep people happy and healthy, they're going to stay engaged and they're going to stay working. They're going to stay healthy at home, and it's a win, and honestly, right now, it's such a beautiful time for employers to really show up for people, breathe that loyalty and have them just feel like their needs are being heard and they're being supported during one of the most challenging times of our lifetime.
Danielle Cobo
Absolutely. This is the past year has been such a roller coaster of emotions from, you know, feeling like in the beginning where I'm like, oh, okay. I'm not traveling so I'm going to go for walks every day, and then these decisions, do I send my kids to school or not? Do my husband and I go out to dinner or not? Just because the risks and so many very powerful decisions we're having to make, and you make a really good point about checking in and checking in on your team, and that is such an important role of a leader to check in on your team. Now, I want to take that a step further because who's checking in on the leaders? I remember when I was when Cove Wister first happening as a leader of supporting my team and helping them through this covet. I didn't necessarily feel like I was being fulfilled, and I was spiraling a little bit, and so what do you think companies do to also support the leadership team?
Michelle Dickinson
It's so important culture shows up in moments like this, what kind of culture you have? And is your organization a culture that is that has always been one where they are looking out for each other, and there's a sense of community. I think it's such a great opportunity for people to be checking on each other, people to be checking on their subordinate’s, people to be checking on their superiors. I mean, we're all at the end of the day, we're all human beings before we are an employee number. So this goes back to the culture work that I do like, what are we doing to show up as the caring human beings? We are first and foremost and then the worker. So I think and that's one of the things I preach. Don't assume the person next to you is doing okay, extend yourself and reach out to them because you might be the only person asking them how they're doing, and that could make all the difference. So it is about checking in on one another regardless of rank and just saying, how are you doing? Because I know I had a bad day yesterday, or can you believe that this is going on? I'm frustrated. How are you? But it's just a connection that's just so vital right now.
Danielle Cobo
You also added social media to this element because social media can create this false reality. And you see, people really put the good on social media. They don't necessarily put the times where they're in their sweats crying because they're trying to make these very impactful decisions, and it can create this false sense. The reality of everybody else is doing good. Why am I really struggling here? It's interesting when companies create this environment where they allow people to share their struggles and to share just the everyday thing that they're really struggling with, how it creates this closeness and this relationship among the teams that are so powerful.
Michelle Dickinson
That's the most amazing thing about having a culture that is stigma free that is truly humanity shows up when we get to be a true and authentic cells. I love that. I think it's so important, and the other thing that I do want people to remember is we were hearing people were navigating this mid pandemic, you know, same boat. We're all in the same boat. We're in this pandemic, but we're not. We're actually in the same ocean, and we're all in very different boats because we all have past traumas and life experiences that are having this experience be very unique to us. So, stop comparing on the illusion of the person next to you who seems to be okay. You have your own experience, and it is uniquely you, and there's nothing wrong with it. Like, I want people to just receive permission to be navigating this to the best of their ability because their scenario in their past history is all contributing to how well they're doing.
Danielle Cobo
Yes, so you brought up an interesting word stigma, and I think there's a lot of stigma around mental health, and a lot of people are really scared to talk about their mental health in the workplace because they're scared that they're going to be viewed as weak. So talk to me a little bit about how you are trying to support conversations around mental health when there's a stigma associated to it.
Michelle Dickinson
Yeah, and it goes back to culture right there's. You can't just go into a company and expect an employee to openly start talking about their mental health. You have to understand what is the environment of the organization? Is it truly an inclusive organization for people with invisible disabilities, just like it is for people with physical disabilities? So I always say, what is the culture like? Are you a stand for inclusion? Are you a stand for authentic authenticity in the workplace? Are your policies in place that say we will be a stigma free organization? Are your leaders talking about this? Is this something that they're talking about? It's so powerful what a senior leader can do just by simply sharing their own story. It's really stone in the organization if they are courageous enough to say there was a time in my life when I navigate to severe anxiety, and then all of a sudden, other people are talking about the fact that he had the courage to talk about that before you know it, there's a dialogue happening amongst several different groups like that. It's okay to acknowledge any mental health imbalance. There's so many little things that we can do to be conditioning our cultures to be ready for these kinds of conversations. But you can't expect an employee to just go first. That is a very scary thing to do. This company is really promoting that they are really committed to their being inclusion for people of all abilities.
Danielle Cobo
Absolutely, and it really takes that one person to be courageous and say something. I remember when I was talking about my journey with IVs and overcoming postpartum depression and being a military spouse, and when you start to talk about things and you give people permission to open up, it's amazing the little mini support groups that you can create within an organization. I remember people would reach out to me that didn't necessarily in an organization where there's 1500 people. It's not that they necessarily knew me very well, but they see people sharing these stories on social media, and you immediately connect with them just because you share the same story.
Michelle Dickinson
So true. It's so true. That was my experience. When I gave my Ted talk, people came out of the darkness and felt like they had permission to connect with me because they felt like someone understood all. I always remind organizations that the most powerful asset you have or your people, and if you can have your people support your people, well, isn't that a beautiful thing? I mean, when I was at J-N-J-I was part of the leadership team that built the first mental health employee resource group, and it's like, no joke. Build it, and they will come. People were longing to connect with other people who either had a loved one at home, had been trying to not their own scenario, and they just wanted that connection in that sense of community and sense of belonging with people who understood. So it's really powerful. The sense of storytelling and connection just by common challenges, life challenges.
Danielle Cobo
There's a lot of organizations that are creating these women in leadership type groups, and imagine how powerful would it be if you've had somebody who's overcome something, whether it's overcoming postpartum overcoming alcoholism or anything along these mental health related subjects, and how powerful would it be if you said, you know what, you have a story and you have overcome such a challenge a moment in time with in your life. Could you be a resource to others? That is such a powerful option to have within these organizations if they let people open up and they create the safe environment for people to talk about mental health.
Michelle Dickinson
Yeah. Amazing. I watched it unfold, and I think it was sort of like, get out of the way because the people have spoken, and that was really cool because there was just momentum. There was the structure. But then people were not feeling obligated to share. But they just were compelled to because there was such an environment that really lend itself well to people telling their stories in an effort to help someone else, and that's pretty remarkable.
Danielle Cobo
So there's people out there, there's listeners out there that are saying, I have a story and but they're scared. And the one advice that I give to those people is when you are actually serving yourself through the process, because when you share your story, it's a therapeutic resource to provide yourself. So what advice would you give to somebody who is considering sharing their story, but they're scared to do it?
Michelle Dickinson
Yeah. I mean, what is your intention with sharing your story? I think, like you said, if your intention is I don't want someone else to suffer what I suffered, and if I can help lighten the load for them, then that's a pretty big stand. I relate to this because I wrote my memoir, and every time I went to write the memoir, it was heavy and it was hard, and I just wanted to quit. But then what I wound up doing was I just remembered what was at stake, and for me, what was at stake was if I could humanize mental health, then I could have other people understand what it is like to love someone and what it is like to struggle with the mental illness, and if that is present and I get to cause that, then that's what matters. So I would always go back to why do you want to share it? You want to share it to help someone, then if that's your stand, that will pull you into action to tell the story and the fears go away, because I will tell you that the people that reached out to me after I release my memoir, the few in the very, very beginning, they need the four years of writing that memoir worth it because it resonated with them. They felt like, understood, and it was all worth it. So I will tell you I do it because the difference that you can make is far beyond what you think.
Danielle Cobo
You're absolutely right. I remember listening to your Ted talk, and I've always struggled with how do I explain what it's like to be raised by a mother with bipolar disorder? I remember watching your Ted talk and going, oh, my gosh, somebody else get it. Somebody else gets what it's like to open up your front door and go, what am I going to go into? Am I walking into my mom who's going to be happy and joy is am I walking into my mom who's going to be depressed like you got it. It was such a powerful message to know somebody else to relate to that.
Michelle Dickinson
Yeah, and at the end of the day, like, if that story helped you feel gotten, oh, Lord, there's so many people that live in this world feeling like they're the only ones that ever navigated something horrible, and it's so alone, it makes you feel so isolated and alone. I mean, someone telling their story could really help if it helps one person that's so worth it, in my opinion.
Danielle Cobo
If you are a leader out there, if you're in a leadership role and you're listening to this podcast right now or watching this on YouTube, I would encourage you set the stage, be the one that is going to encourage and open up that environment to talk about mental health in the workplace, because when you do it, you're leading by example and others will follow and people your team will connect with you in new ways. Look at you and go the person is real. It's like a human. They're not just the leader that's leading from the top. There's an element to this person that's human, and so if you're listening, I would encourage you to do that. Now, tell us a little bit. So the listeners out there, let's say they're not in a company right now. That is so having these programs, what are some tools that you can provide them to help them navigate through this very interesting time within our life?
Michelle Dickinson
Well, so it goes back to some of the things that we've already spoken about. It's being courageous enough to get present to how you're doing emotionally on a day to day basis, and you can go online and you can get the scale of emotions so that you can look at that every morning and just say, all right, I'm at this stage, I'm actually okay, or I'm not doing really well, and when you see that you're not doing really well, that's when you reach out and talk to someone, it could just be a best friend. It could be your mother, could be someone you love and trust. So have the courage to get present how you're doing daily and reach out if you feel like you're not doing well before it escalates, just nip it right in the butt. You know what I mean? Seriously? So then there's that getting enough sleep. It sounds so basic. But the first challenge, I think for mental health and balances is when we can't see straight because we're not getting enough sleep. So I would say making sleep hygiene in a priority, getting enough sleep, setting up your room so that you have a good environment to get a restful. Sleep not ruminating about things when you're lying in bed at night. Really? Instead thinking about instead of replaying your day and beating yourself up or things you didn't do or you're upset about, try to lay in bed at night and create your tomorrow. Focus on tomorrow. Focus on how I am going to create my tomorrow instead of beating yourself up and that'll help you get a really nice restful sleep because you're not going to be all consumed in things you can't change from the day. That's important. I would also say a gratitude practice because you can't be fearful or angry when you're grateful. So whatever that looks like for you for me, I wake up in the morning and instead of scrolling on social media, which doesn't feel very good, I go to my little Journal on my phone called The Five Minute Journal. I go ahead and I log three things I'm grateful for because if I can get presents of things that are good in my life, then that starts my day off on the right foot and you talk about creating this environment for I love sleep hygiene.
Danielle Cobo
That's such an interesting way of creating this environment for sleep hygiene. So my husband and I actually don't have a TV in our bedroom because we create this sleep environment. Now I know many people as well as myself really struggle with going to bed and looking at her phone and social media, and I know that when we do that, I know it's a horrible habit. Sometimes I'm good at it. Sometimes I'm not. I notice the nights that I do scroll through social media. My brain has a really hard time shutting off and really transitioning into that restful sleep very different than when I end my day reading my Journal or my daily devotional.
Michelle Dickinson
Exactly.
Danielle Cobo
How you end your day and how you start the last 30 minutes. They say of your day, how important that is and how you cherish those moments and really creating an environment that's helping you transition into that restful sleep as well as how you start your morning, not just going and grabbing a phone or grabbing your emails and getting overwhelmed at what you need to do that day.
Michelle Dickinson
Absolutely. I love that. I'm I absolutely love that you gave a testimonial as to why you do what you do with the Journal and how that made you feel, and I think that's what people need to just try it on. Just try it on. Put your phone in another room, go to bed, put your phone in another room, go to bed, maybe do your Journal, maybe read something inspiring or enlightening and then just go to sleep and see if there's a difference in how you feel versus are you anxious or did you not get a good rest restful night sleep? These are all little things you can just try. Just try and see how it makes you feel, and then if it makes you feel different or better, there's your answer.
Danielle Cobo
Yeah, and I take it even a step further, too, in addition to putting your phone away. So if you have a work phone in a personal phone, which I know some of people out there do, I would leave my work phone in my office after hours so that I wouldn't be tempted to look at it as well as when I'm with my kids. I try my best, and sometimes I'm good at it. Sometimes I'm not. I try my best to put my phone in the other room so that I'm not tempted to look at my phone when I'm with my kids, or even if you don't have kids out there, whether you're with a friend or a family member, not they're looking at your phone so you can be fully present.
Michelle Dickinson
I think we live in such a distracted society like you've done it. You've gone out to dinner and you've seen the couple at the table next to you both on their phone and you're like, you're at a beautiful dinner, really. But we've all been there and we can identify how bad it looks. You're like, they're really disconnected. But then it's like, you really have to be conscious because this thing is like a dopamine hit. We have to realize that the being truly present is so important. It's so important for those we love. It really does show a lot of respect and love when we can just be fully present.
Danielle Cobo
Yeah. I don't try to remember the study that I read, but there is a study that talked about the facts of when you are on the phone, what that message sends to the other person, and they said it's equivalent, and the brain waves as to somebody slapping you in the face, and I couldn't believe it. So if you sit there and somebody's on the other phone or if you're on your phone while somebody's talking to you, you're basically stopping in the base and saying, you're not important. My phone is more important than you, and could you imagine how that feels to that other person.
Michelle Dickinson
Even if they don't say anything. That's how they're feeling. Yeah. It's like an exercise and reminding ourselves to be present in the moment and of where we are.
Danielle Cobo
If you are, that person on the other end is a technique and tool that I do is if somebody is on their phone, I actually stop talking, and I wait until they look up and they say, oh, I can hear you, and I appreciate that you can hear me. I'll go ahead and wait until you're done, and then you and I can continue to talk.
Michelle Dickinson
Awesome.
Danielle Cobo
Well, tell us, Michelle, where can my audience find you? Where can companies find you when it comes to the programs that you offer organizations as well as my audience, where can they find you?
Michelle Dickinson
Awesome, thank you for asking. So you could go as easily to my website, careforyourpeople.com and learn about why we should be doing more for our people now and how to reach out to me. Typically, what I love to do is just share my story. It takes a so I have no problem talking about my depression, my mother's depression, my Ted talk, my book. So I love to just kind of create the space of open dialogue realm well-being and then leave people empowered with my tools and techniques. You can reach me a careforyourpeople.com.
Danielle Cobo
Where can my audience? I know we talked about your published author in your book. Tell us again what your book is and where people can find your book.
Michelle Dickinson
It's called Breaking into My Life, and it's available on Amazon and on barnesandnoble.com. You can go there and you can even go to my website, breakingintomylife.com for a free chapter of the book if you want to just kind of get a sense of what it's like. But yeah, I wrote it over a four year period. I poured my heart out because I want people to understand what it's like to love someone with the mental illness. I think that's the most important message, but it is ultimately a story of persevere and triumph. Just like you, how we've overcome that hurdle of loving someone who was so sick and to go on and do other things in this world, and if you would have asked me even five years ago if I would be an advocate for mental health in honor of my mother, I probably would have laughed at you, but this is the path that I have been led to.
Danielle Cobo
It's interesting. We both share that you are doing this in honor of your mother, and when people go to my website, www.danielle.com, if you look at the bottom, even though my mom and I struggled, she was a mother by bipolar disorder. I dedicated my company to her because she taught me work ethic and drive and perseverance and passion, and so again, it's even though they struggle with mental health, you're aware of it. You still love them anyways, and they still inspire you to do great things in your life.
Michelle Dickinson
Yeah, and in the back of my book, I actually wrote an epilogue about how I can now see how her illness has served me in so many ways. I think that for people who overcome living with and loving someone with some type of challenge. You got to look for it. You got to do the healing. You got to do the work, and then once you do the work, you can actually reflect and say it did serve me in some way, and I'm really clear that my mother's illness has served me.
Danielle Cobo
Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Michelle, for joining us. You are absolutely amazing, and you have such a powerful message, not only to the listeners out there on tools and techniques to help them get through this interesting time of our life, and also organizations that can really pour into their team and the culture and giving people permission to talk about their mental health and creating this environment of eliminating stigmas. So thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us, and I hope you all have a wonder day.
Michelle Dickinson
Thank you.
