Balancing Ambition and Hustle Without Burning Out with Amy Looper
Episode 148
Have you ever felt like the universe forced you into a corner, pushing you to confront your deepest fears?
Today's guest went from the high-flying corridors of the world's top cybersecurity company straight into the depth of self-discovery. Burned out, mourning family tragedy, and battling PTSD, she had to face the raw, undiluted image staring back at her in the mirror after years of wrapping her identity around titles and paychecks.
Today, you’ll see the difference between confidence and self-belief, the real roots of burnout and how to break the reoccurring cycle, and the double edge sword of grit in high achievers and balancing the hustle.
After this Episode, You Will Be Able to ...
Uncover your deepest motivations.
Embrace the courage to make bold choices.
Shed self-imposed identities to align with your true desires.
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About the guest
Amy Looper, Founder of Leading Motherhood and Building Company Culture programs is on a mission to eliminate fear and anxiety from women's lives. She works with ambitious women and mothers to rediscover themselves after big life events such as becoming a parent, an empty nester, career, or relationship change. Amy does not believe that women should settle for the myth that they must sacrifice their income, health, or relationships. Instead, they can grow a career alongside connected personal relationships, family without giving anything up.
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About the host:
Danielle Cobo is an international female speaker for organizations, associations, and the public sector. She works with audiences to harness the grit and resilience to lead through change.
With over 15 years of corporate experience in the medical sales industry, she knows how to build high-performing teams that increase sales, productivity, and employee retention. Her expertise includes corporate resilience and burnout prevention.
Danielle is the author of “Unstoppable Grit: Breakthrough the 7 Roadblocks Standing Between You and Achieving Your Goals” and hosts the globally top-rated podcast "Unstoppable Grit Podcast with Danielle Cobo.”
As a former Fortune 500 Senior Sales Manager, she led her team through downsizing, restructuring, and acquisitions to become the #1 sales team in the nation. As a result, she was awarded Region Manager of the Year. Her resiliency motivated her to earn four consecutive national Sales Excellence Awards in a male-dominated industry.
While her husband, a Blackhawk pilot in the Army, deployed to Iraq for a year, Danielle learned to balance a demanding job while caring for their energetic 1.5-year-old twin boys, who possess more energy than a squirrel after a triple espresso.
Danielle’s resilience led her to start her own business, helping others develop the grit, resilience, and courage to thrive in life and business.
Her tenacious attitude stems from being raised by an ambitious mother and recovering from being taken from her father and cast out at 17 years of age.
She is a two-time 60-mile walker and a monster truck driver in Louboutin’s.
Danielle has a bachelor’s in communication with a minor in psychology from the California State University of Fullerton, Certification in Inclusive and Ethical Leadership from the University of South Florida Muma College of Business, and accreditation in Human Behavior from Personality Insights. Inc., and Leadership from Boston Breakthrough Academy.
She is a member of the National Speakers Association, the Central Florida National Speakers Association Chapter, Innovation Women, and a former member of Working Women of Tampa Bay. Danielle serves on the Military Advisory, Workforce Development, and Women of Influence Committees of the Tampa Chamber of Commerce. She is also a contributing writer for Women's Quarterly Magazine.
Her experience includes serving as a Training Pillar on the Military Spouse Economic Empowerment Zone Committee and Career Transition Advisor for Dallas Professional Women.
Through Danielle's captivating storytelling, content-rich and motivational style, she empowers individuals and organizations to cultivate unwavering resilience, igniting a transformative path towards increased sales, productivity, employee retention, and collaboration.
About the show:
The Unstoppable Grit Podcast with Danielle Cobo explores the journeys of people who have overcome adversity and harnessed the grit and resilience to thrive in all areas of their lives, Guests share how they overcame difficult times - the strategies, mindset shifts, lessons they learned along the way, and actions that propelled them forward. From navigating career setbacks to overcoming personal obstacles, each episode is a testament to grit and resilience.
You'll learn how to develop the grit and resilience to lead yourself and others through change.
Join host Danielle Cobo, keynote speaker and author of "Unstoppable Grit: Break Through the 7 Roadblocks Standing Between You and Your Goals." A new episode is released every Wednesday at 4:00 AM EST.
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Have you ever felt the universe forcing you into a corner, pushing you to confront your deepest fears? Today's guests went through the high-flying quarters of the world's top security cybersecurity company, straight into the depths of self-discovery. Burnt out, mourning family tragedy, and battling PTSD, she had faced the raw, undiluted image staring back at her in the mirror after years of wrapping her identity around titles and paychecks.
Today, you'll discover the difference between confidence and self-belief, the real roots of burnout, and how to break the recurring cycle and the double-edged sword of grit and high achievers and balancing the hustle.
You had this moment where you were looking in the mirror and you weren't seeing the person that you typically did in the past. And it sounds like you were looking in the mirror and just being confronted with this fear.
The Truth Behind the Hustle Culture
It's kind of that moment of that empty feeling of going. I know that I'm not aligned in what I'm doing in my career. I felt kind of lost after having kids and just kind of feeling like, what's next? I know that something else is going to be in alignment. I just don't know what it is.
How did you know that you weren't in alignment, and what did you do?
Well, it wasn't like an overnight feeling. It was like this kind of gnawing feeling after many, many years. After going through a lot of things in between both births of my kids, we had some family trauma. Lost my father-in-law and my mother-in-law really, really close together, and it just had to keep kind of smiling, and I just kept kind of bending around. I saw my clients, like sometimes as people pleasers, we bend around the fork, like a spaghetti noodle. And that's what I did. I just kept saying, okay, this isn't working for my family. This isn't working for my husband. This isn't working for someone else, right. And so after so many years, I just kept chipping away unknowingly at what I really wanted to do because I was just trying to appease everyone else and then eventually one day, in a situation with a boss that was rather over the top, and I just was like all the angst, the exhaustion, everything just started to rain down. I have got to either take a break. Get out of this work scenario. I just felt like I couldn't move forward.
There's a lot of times we'll say people don't leave a company because of the money. People leave companies because of the manager, and it sounds like you had a bad manager. Describe this manager a little bit because I want to understand what this manager was possibly doing or the environment that you were in where you felt like this is just not the place for me.
Any of you in sales that are listening, I brought in over a million dollars in revenue my first quarter working for this company and is an amazing company. I love the technology like I went there for the tech, right? I knew this stuff worked. I knew that I could bring any client to this particular company and know that they would literally be very, very secure from a cybersecurity standpoint. And I couldn't wait to sell this right. But being there, it was a situation, and we often see this in sales and I think high-performing industries. Very male-dominated industry as well just seemed like you couldn't do enough for this person. It was like you'd always single you out when you could clearly see that other folks were right in the line, if not even just doing, even over the call of duty from your peers. And yet you were always singled out, pushed to do something further more than what the original set of expectations.
So this person just has a narcissist personality. Some of those really difficult personalities that we sometimes run across in the workplace. So it was just that typical situation where you didn't feel that sense of psychological safety or belonging or a culture that you can really be authentic in. You were always kind of watching your back. It just wasn't a healthy environment. And so eventually I just prayed like, please let me go to something else. Let me end this journey, even though I easily can make over 300,000 in those kinds of roles and have an amazing business for a very long time, but it just wasn't worth it at that point.
That's a hard paycheck. And I would say paycheck, but more or less the stability that that type of income offers. It's hard to walk away. I walked away from something similar and it wasn't easy. It was scary. And it was, there was a lot of fear involved with it. And I would imagine you probably had some of that too.
Mutual Separation at Work
So take us back to that moment where you mentioned that you were laid off. You walked away. What was that next step that you took?
Mutual separation. I was so glad that that happened. Actually, I remember coming out of that conversation going. Ryan, who's my husband, I said, “Oh my gosh, it finally happened. I'm free.” I knew it was coming down. You just couldn't do anything. Well, you couldn't do anything right with this guy. And it ended up being this like, personal back and forth. And it was just not healthy. I would never want my kids to work in an environment that way. So I'm like, okay, look as a leading mom, you get to go create a different path. So that's an interesting perspective there because when it comes to our kids, for those of us that are parents out there, for it comes to our kids, we would never want them to be in that environment. We're so protective of them. If somebody is mean to them on the playground, it's like, you just want to protect them as much as you can, even though they've got to find their own way to defend themselves and, and those elements. But why do we allow ourselves to be put in these situations? It's not okay for our kids. I mean, we never want that for our kids, but by ourselves staying in toxic environments, we're modeling for those around us and our kids that it's okay when It's not.
Parental Duties
I think as women, we are so conditioned from a very early age to just put up or shut up or be the people pleaser and just make everybody happy around you. And if you come from any of that, or maybe you were the peacekeeper in the middle of a chaotic environment, you can bring that with you into adulthood, you know? And so, I think we owe it to our next generation to break that cycle and the idea that we have to sacrifice. We have to give everything up, that life has to be hard and that if we want a career and we want to grow a family that it's just supposed to be a grind. That is just such a false myth. It doesn't have to be. But we do this to ourselves because of the way that society says. It's just tough. Just put up with it. No, it is tough.
I was talking to my husband the other day, and I said I always look at those moms and parents. I want to be respectful when I say parents because it is mutual caretaking for kids and raising a family. If you're given the opportunity to have both parents, I didn't have both parents. So I also relate to those single parents, but I look at these Instagram reels, and I see these parents, and they're when school's about to start and they're on Target. And they're saying, Hey parents, you want me to get you pencils? I'll get you as many pencils as you can. You want highlighters? I'll give you as many highlighters as you can. And they're saying, whatever it takes to get you to take my kids and have them at school again.
I'm thinking in the back of my head, Oh, I hate it when my kids are in school. And I don't know if anyone can relate to this, but the hustle and bustle of getting up at five, something in the morning, getting them ready and on the bus by six fifty, then they're at school all day while I'm working, then pick them up at five o'clock and it's then it's cook dinner, homework, bathe and embed by seven thirty. And then as soon as they're done in bed, then it's time to make the lunches and clean up the house and do the laundry. It doesn't end. It's exhausting, right?
When you're going through and you're doing all these things but I also really have embraced the fact that, we create that experience and choose the mood that we're going to be in.
Do I love making lunches? No. My husband is doing it the days that he can. Also like we get to do it together. Now my kids are seven and nine so they can actually start to help out, and so we can make some of these things a collaborative partnership and help create a better experience. And I think mindset is everything. Take a deep breath, get out of the room, recenter, and then just go back in and realize this is just a phase and that, we get to have a great morning and I have to leave that and as tired as it can be. It also is just like, take a breath and shift, you know?
Yeah, you're right. In those moments where we're caught up in the hustle and the bustle, we get to choose. How we approach and how we react to those situations. It is up to us and our choice. And you're talking about lunch, my kids are starting to get involved in making their own lunches. But I remember before when they couldn't, they were five years old.I kind of made it a game in my head and my husband laughed at me at this, but I was like, how many colors can I get in the lunch pail? So it was, if I was going to make a sandwich and then I said, okay, cantaloupe is orange. Strawberries are red. Grapes are green. It was just something to kind of make it like a game for myself. And there's some people that are probably thinking this lady is crazy, but to me, it was a choice. To take the mundane out of the task and kind of make it a little fun. And let's just be real. You're right. Making lunches is not the funnest thing. I much rather be reading or sitting in my jacuzzi or watching my favorite TV show. But there's just a reality that this is kind of a phase in life. We get to approach each phase in life with a choice.
15-Minute Indulgence
There's such power in that. And then you're leading your day and you're not having that energy. We all have been there. It's eight o'clock and we're just logging in our emails. You just drop the kids off when you feel like you just worked a full day. I mean, let's be realistic. We feel the drain. I'm not going to be real. I'm not going to say that doesn't happen because it does. That's reality. But then you can say, okay, wait a minute, ground yourself for giving myself five, 15 minutes. Maybe I journal, maybe I just spend some extra time reading something. Maybe I'd like to read the Bible in the morning. Like whatever it is, like just, just give yourself 15 minutes, the world's not going to come crashing down and you get to give yourself a gift of just rebalancing. And that's how we can really rebalance our nervous system for these, for this role as a parent, it's high performance.
That's what it is- 15 minutes. It sounds like when we talk about, Oh, 15 minutes, that's not that long. And then when we actually do take those 15 minutes, it does feel a lot longer than it is because we rarely as a society do it. I know that when I get home, when it's not. 120 degrees in Florida weather. My 15 minutes might be just going for a walk with my kids. It might be when it's really hot outside, just sitting on the couch for a little bit in the morning. That 15 minutes is me going for a brisk walk and listening to my favorite morning podcast, whatever that is. But that right there, those 15 minutes could be that difference in breaking that cycle of burnout, breaking up that day, just a little bit. And I also believe that that's also that 15 minutes could be separating your brain from what you had just done with work and kind of recentering yourself for the nighttime routine ahead. A hundred percent. I actually flipped my work, my workouts. I used to be like, The 4 a. m. person, right? Gotta get up, gotta do all the things and get my meditation and my workouts in early, early, early. And that, that works to a degree, but there's some weeks where I'm like, you know what? Because of my schedule, I really need to do that at the end of my day to give myself that buffer between work and kids. So, you just kind of have to feel it out and be flexible and open and, and, and just agile in how you're approaching each day because there's sometimes where you're like, okay, we have gymnastics tonight. We have a church thing tonight. Like, it's going to be lasting until nine o'clock and I need that energy. So you might need to take a break mid, mid afternoon to restore yourself again.
Empowering Mindsets to Balance Ambition and Hustle
Believe in Yourself: Emphasize the importance of self-belief over external validation for unlocking one's potential.
Overcoming Burnout: Drawing from personal experiences, Amy Looper provides practical strategies to break free from the cycle of burnout and regain energy and enthusiasm.
The Power of Serving Others: Highlight the impact of intentional acts of service, urging individuals to explore the transformative power of helping others.
You talked about rediscovering yourself. You’ve had this big high profile corporate job. You're a high-achiever. You've got what that American dream looks like: six-figure income got the house, the kids, but now you've hit this moment where you said you're looking in the mirror. You've had this mutual separation from the organization that you are with. I'm looking at myself in the mirror, but I don't see myself in the mirror.
Self-Belief Leads to a Transformative Journey
I just stayed out of the workforce, and two weeks later the pandemic hit and I intentionally was like, no, let's create a business. My husband's like, why didn't you just create a business and intentionally stay out of going to another sales job? He's like, you've been miserable for a while. And so I said, no, that's a great idea. And so that's what I did. And I really owe it to him. The courageous action of being an entrepreneur of even trying, trying to figure out all of the things that we all have to figure out in those early stages. I started to do advising, that was my first step. I worked with tech founders that I knew in cybersecurity did a lot of. sales advisory and helping them be stronger, sellers as technical founders. And then eventually I got really courageous and I said, you know what, if you're going to do this thing called entrepreneurship and you're all in, you have got to really bet on yourself and go where you want to serve.
So, it involved a lot of transformational leadership work, investing in myself, and really processing the traumatic things that had happened to me. It wasn't therapy or anything else that ever helped with that over the years. It was that transformational leadership work where I was like, okay, got it. I really have more potential. I get to play a bigger game. I am worthy.
As I grew in self-belief and started to see my worth (and this was not an overnight thing; this took a while), it all started to come together. I started to create the things that I really wanted to do and began to align back with my soul. It was also a big walk in faith. it's a big walk in surrender, a realization that I needed to let go of the fear that life has to be a certain way, especially in cybersecurity, working with a big company logo because that's what society thinks you should do. Or that's what you have a self-expectation of. Releasing all of that, shedding all the layers, looking at yourself in the mirror and going, , I haven't had that identity, and my identity paycheck has been completely stripped. My ego is completely crushed, and let's rebuild." So, it was a process. But rediscovering yourself is such a gift because you get to get really truthful about what you want.
Overcome Burnout by Shutting Down Societal Expectations
So, if you guys are listening and you're having a hard time answering this question, "What do you want?" If you're like, "Oh man, I'm stuck," don't feel like you're alone because you're not alone. We go through this. It's definitely a woman and parenthood kind of experience for many people. But you get to get truthful with yourself, step out of that place of people-pleasing, and really start to ask yourself, "Now I'm catching myself people-pleasing. Let me go back in. What do I really want?" Pray it up, and it will all come to you in due time.
I'm going to challenge this a little bit because a lot of times there's this assumption, as women, we say, "As women, we're people-pleasers." If you don't know what you want, you're not alone. I work with men and women, and there are a lot of men and women out there that don't know what they want. They're always looking for clarity on what the next step in their career is going to be. Society has put expectations on men, saying, "You need to be macho. You need to be the provider of the household." So, I know that women are probably typically a little more open in saying, "This is how women experience," but men do too. A hundred percent. In my work with parents, there's a lot of men out there that reach a point and say, "You know what? I actually want to be a stay-at-home dad. Awesome." It's all good. It's whatever's really aligned with where you are, and it doesn't mean it has to be forever either. We're humans that go through a human experience, and it changes.
One of the first guests on my podcast, probably within the first five episodes, actually no, it was the first episode of my podcast. She was a woman, had a VP position in a big organization, and she talked about sometimes the insecurities that she had when stepping into a VP role for the first time. But also the insecurities that took place because her husband was a stay-at-home dad, and she was the worker. What are those reactions that women would give at the PTA meetings? So, going, "Oh, so you're the mom. Oh, so now you've graced us with your presence." It's a good episode for those that are listening.
But let's talk about this transformative journey that you took into leadership. For those that are either in the entrepreneurial journey or working in corporate, what is one specific step that you took in this transformative experience that they can do today to help them identify what success means to them for what they want?
Well, I think a very tactical step you can do today is really just get some quiet time—no distractions, turn off the phone—and start journaling. Just start journaling. Sometimes I even turn on my otter AI and just start talking to see what's transcribed because sometimes I just need to get it out. If you're not a journaler, there's more than one way, but really just start seeing what comes up for you as you reflect on what's going on in your life, your day, maybe look at yesterday. Oftentimes, I'll have people journal about their day prior because as high performers, as high achievers, that self-criticism gets to be quite high, and it becomes this behavior that we probably don't even notice at first, but we're going to self-beat up pretty easily. So really looking at, "Wait a minute, what are the things I did yesterday that really moved the needle on my business and my personal life? What did I do for myself? How did I give myself the gift of just some rest and recovery time?" And really just giving yourself that pat on the back. It starts with you. There's no program, coach, or anybody. None of that works unless you do this kind of work internally. You're so spot on. I work with a lot of salespeople. I have a lot of clients that are in sales, and a lot of times they come to me and just say, "I'm not hitting my number, and I don't know what's working." And they get into that self-beat up. And number one, that self-beat up does not serve you.
Once you start doing it just a little bit, it's chipping away at your confidence, and you continue to do it, and it's a demoralizing spiral. It just keeps going. And then all of a sudden, you wake up one morning and you just feel lost. You've got no self-confidence, and that ultimately affects your numbers even more. So, whether you're working in a corporate environment and sales or you're an entrepreneur, that self-beat up is probably the worst thing you can do for yourself. And then, like you said, it's kind of taking that step in that self-reflection and saying, "What's working well in my life and my business? What's not working well? What's not serving me well? What are some steps that I can make, some small little pivots and refinements to change so that I get the outcome that I want?" More importantly, I always invite my clients: when you sit down in that room and you're journaling what you want, close your eyes and think about what brings you the most joy.
Because if you don't know why you're doing it, before you and I jumped on this call, we were talking about walking away from a big salary and a big income. I said, "I'm still motivated by money. I always will be. I wasn't raised with a lot of money, so to me, money means security."
The Power of Serving Others
But more importantly, my driving reason for why I want to build something big is that feeling that you get to provide not only for your family but that feeling when you come across somebody who's in a difficult time and to just be that lending hand of saying, "Let me help you. I can.” Whatever it's somebody that needs a meal or clothes or just some money to get back up on their feet or they're going through medical situations right now. That's the why. That's the feeling. When you get back to your why, that's what gets you the motivation to keep going and to get out of that self-criticism. Because that's your motivator and your North Star and North point to get you to where you want to be. That's what keeps that purpose alive.
Being in service, being in love towards other people, being an impact is the highest vibration. It's the best way of being you can be in the world. And so you can pull yourself right out of fear, anxiety, guilt, shame, all the lower level emotional states that can really keep us stuck. When you choose to be courageous, it might be really courageous for you in that moment to be like, "Okay, this has been a low month in my business, or I didn't hit my bonus, but I'm still going to go be in service." That's when things flow—when you make those big choices like that, where it feels uncomfortable, it feels out of the norm, doesn't feel logical, but you are surrendering. You're surrendering to a different process. You're surrendering toward a higher cause.
Yes. And let's talk about the ways too that you can be in service throughout every aspect of your day. It could be helping a coworker. It could be just picking up the phone and asking them, "How's your day going? What can I do to support you?" It could be calling a friend. It could be helping out a neighbor. There's so many ways that we can be in service, and there are studies that show that when those individuals that volunteer have happier lives because they're in service. It sounds counterintuitive. Here I am in the hustle and bustle, and I'm exhausted and burnout, and you're telling me to add more on and to help others, but you'd be surprised that by helping others, it could help relieve some of that burnout because you're called to a higher purpose, and it's a more fulfilling experience.
One of the things we do in the work that I do with my clients is the last part of the service project. Because often when we're in that place of the corporate grind, maybe you're a C-level, maybe you're owning your own business, maybe you're in sales, whatever it is, it's just the nature of those businesses often takes you to a place of inwardness because you're just trying to get things rolling in something, right? So, we have to be intentional about thinking outward.
Let me get back into the hustle and into a place where I can help other people right around me. Like you said, maybe it's a colleague. But being in service is just so impactful, but you have to be intentional about it. So if you haven't really lined up the things that really light you up, the organizations or the ways of creating impact, I really encourage people to do that between now and the end of the year. Think about how you can kind of weave that in over October, November, December because you'll see a shift. You'll feel lighter. And you'll be able to maybe make some connections that open doors that you never thought. And it's really a great cycle. It's just a great way of being.
We're talking about being in service. We're talking about having this being called to a higher purpose and being in servitude to others and the gratefulness that we get to experience from that.
Celebrate Servitude With Us
I want you to tag us on social media. Take a picture of what you're doing. Maybe you're volunteering at a local church. Maybe you're volunteering and serving food to the homeless right around the holidays. Tag us in it. Share these stories. Let's create this ripple effect for those around us of being in servitude. So whether you're going to tag us or DM us, we want to hear from you and see how we, as a community, can make a difference in other people's lives.
Get the Leading Motherhood Book
I wrote "Leading Motherhood" last year, and I literally wrote it within a couple of months. It just kind of was perfect timing. So if any of you are wondering about how to write a book, just go with it. If you're thinking about doing it, do it. I wrote "Leading Motherhood: Surrendering to Faith Over Fear from the Delivery Room to Boardroom," talking about the journey of motherhood, the myths of motherhood—from everything we experience in the workplace to birthing experiences to societal and marriage experiences. And then it's also a do-it-yourself journal. So, people can really work on their vision, their boundaries. It is not just for early-stage moms; it's for anybody going through it, and men too. It's really for anybody that wants to rediscover themselves and get back into connection with what they truly want. So, I appreciate you having me drop that in here and be happy to gift that to any of your listeners who want it because it's more important to me that you guys just have some tools.
I'm sure there's somebody out there that can relate to this, to our stories and what you've shared and can say, "Yeah, absolutely. I want to get to that self-discovery, and I know what it's like to feel burnt out and hustle and bustle." And I want to take these steps to live a more fulfilling life and have that faith over that fear. We'll go ahead and include those notes. The link in the show notes. And for those of you that are listening, if you know somebody right now, maybe you've got a friend, a colleague, a family member who you know is trying to juggle it all. And you know that they just could use a little boost and inspiration and motivation, share this episode with them. This is part of being in service. To others is to share tools and resources to help others and pick me up and inspire them.
